Billy’s whining about the Civic Center again.
In my 11 years in the Peoria area, I’ve been to events at the Civic Center about 650 times…as best I can guess. That includes almost 400 Rivermen games, a few dozen concerts, 10 or 11 car shows, home and boat shows, state basketball tournaments, March Madness experience, a few comics/broadway shows in the Theatre, and a few business connections/functions. I’ve also been to the old Vonachen Stadium dozens of times, and the gorgeous O’Brien Field dozens of times, and not just for baseball.
Over that same time, I have been to Lakeview Museum twice, to the Riverplex once, to Peoria Stadium twice, to the Peoria Public Library…umm, never, and to the Riverfront to “take a walk” maybe twice.
The sidewalk in front of the home Diane and I moved away from one year ago was in decent shape, albeit with some cracks…but it was constructed in 1938 for chrissakes, I think it’s held up pretty damn well. Likewise, the street we lived on had no potholes, despite being there for over 70 years. Why? Because obviously the city has done a decent job of keeping it up.
Are there poor sidewalks? Sure. Are there bad streets? Certainly. Have they closed a fire station? One, if I’m not mistaken. Peoria, population 112,900 and falling, has 12 fire stations, according to the city website (11 with the closure?). Rockford, with 150,000 people, has 11. Aurora, pop. 142,000, has 9.
Is there crime? Damn straight there is, but I don’t see how closing the Civic Center is going to keep people from shooting each other. “Oh, the Civic Center is closed, hurray! I’m never going to carry a gun and shoot a guy again. Thank you, Peoria!”
BTW, how many of these murders have been committed at the Civic Center or O’Brien Field, the other thing you can’t stand? But I digress.
Bottom line…I, for one, am sick of the whining about O’Brien Field and the Civic Center and other entertainment venues that actually bring something to the city. If you think 200,000 (Rivermen attendance yearly) people are going to attend “street pavings” and 180,000 or so (Bradley basketball attendance) are going to watch “sidewalk rebuildings” and 220,000 (Chiefs attendance) are going to come out and pay money to sit across the street from the fire station for three hours and 50,000 more (from two weekends of boys high school basketball…mostly from OUT OF TOWN) are going to come on down and watch a gang shooting, well, if you can promise that…then I can see razing the venues.
Oh, and when those venues are razed, you’ll whine about the businesses and hotels and stores and hell, probably even the parks and green space that are put up to replace them.
A $350,000 loss? So…freakin’…what. Add up the hotel rooms, meals, gas, and every other purchase that was made because of an event at the PCC, and the tax dollars received from those events, and it’s quite clear…crystal clear…that the PCC is still a BOON to Peoria’s economy, despite the small loss the venue itself suffered.
Any sidewalks earn tax dollars last year by hosting events? Didn’t think so.
12 responses so far ↓
1
Billy Dennis
// Aug 22, 2007 at 4:35 am
So … you admit you have a vested interest in keeping the PCC open. Hah!
2
BJ Stone
// Aug 22, 2007 at 4:52 am
If my “vested interest” is not being bored stiff to live around here, then yeah, I have a “vested interest”. Hah!
So I like sports. I like car shows. I like concerts. Tell me where I should go for those if there were no civic center. BTW, my former tax dollars (when I lived there) went for things that I didn’t benefit from (see list above), but I didn’t complain about it.
3
BJ Stone
// Aug 22, 2007 at 4:56 am
BTW, Billy, according to Merle, http://widmer-peoria-watch.blogspot.com/2007_03_18_archive.html the Riverplex has lost 7 million…SEVEN MILLION…in four years. If that is correct (and I have no reason to doubt Mr. Widmer)…where is your outrage over that? Me thinks you might be focusing your anger on the wrong problem.
4
Billy Dennis
// Aug 22, 2007 at 5:06 am
I have been screwed over by the PCC for a longer period of time than I have the Riverplex.
5
Anon E. Mouse
// Aug 22, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Bill doesn’t use it so it must be useless.
6
chef Kevin
// Aug 22, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Do we get rid of either? No. But the taxpayers in the city need to demand fiscal responsibility. How many publicly held businesses wouldn’t see major shake-ups in top management positions if they continually lost this much money every year?
$300,000+ and all the HRA tax money would pay for a lot of police, firestations and sidewalks.
“Add up the hotel rooms, meals, gas, and every other purchase that was made because of an event at the PCC, and the tax dollars received from those events, and it’s quite clear…crystal clear…that the PCC is still a BOON to Peoria’s economy..”
This means that I, and countless other people, pay taxes and HRA taxes to help keep the PCC afloat. Other nearby PCC businesses make money off of Civic Center events that in essence pumps even more money in the PCC and they still lose money. Something is wrong with that picture.
Black ink performance based paychecks for these two indentities management is what we need.
7
Heywood Jabuzzoff
// Aug 22, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Of course BJ loves it. he isn’t paying for it.
8
bjstone
// Aug 22, 2007 at 5:37 pm
I don’t mind “paying for it”, there, Heywood. I likewise don’t mind paying for all the other stuff I mentioned that I don’t use, because I know it’s useful to somebody. Maybe the anti-civic center folks could think about it that way.
I see where no one has responded to the 7 MILLION dollar loss at the Snootypl…, er, Riverplex in the last four years. Hell, next to that thing the PCC looks even more like a goldmine.
Billy…so just because it’s older it’s worse than the ‘plex? Huh?
Kev – I totally agree that we need fiscal responsibility. But you don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. Arenas and stadiums all over the country get HRA money from their municipalities. Why? Because in most casest those venues are the reason so much money is collected. So why SHOULDN’T they get a piece of that money?
Arena business is like any other…sometimes they make money, sometimes they lose money. But I think back to when the state of Minnesota did what they had to do…build a domed stadium…to keep the Twins and Vikings from bailing. They kept those teams because of what they mean for the economy. One scribe said “if we lose the Twins and Vikings, this place will become a colder version of Omaha.” Ouch. Who in their right mind would have wanted that?
And regarding your “we pay to keep it afloat” argument. Why not? We pay to keep everything else afloat. That’s what taxes do.
Here’s an idea to recover that $300,000: I learned from CNN last night that every year, the U.S. gives 3 billion dollars…billion…to Israel, no questions asked. Just gives it to ‘em. Let’s break that down…Illinois has 3% of the U.S. population. If that 3 billion stayed home and was divided equally based on percentage of population, that’s 90 million bucks. Divide that by the 13 million residents of Illinois and you have $6.92. Multipy $6.92 by 113,000 Peorians and you have over $780,000 to give to the city. That doesn’t even count the little “towns” of P. Heights and West Peoria and every other little burb that should just be part of Peoria.
$780,000…hmmm…pays the PCC debt and puts a nice little chunk of change down towards reopening the beloved fire station or adding more officers or fixing those dreaded sidewalks that are of such importance…or maybe you could cut down the garbage fee. And get this…since we just offer up the 3 bil every year, we could just plan on the 780k for the feds every year. Nice, huh?
What I’m saying is we could probably focus our energies a little better on fiscal responsibility in and around Peoria than just instantly blaming one place…one place that actually provides the service of entertainment in town. Anybody who doesn’t use the Civic Center and then sits around and cries, “there’s nothing to do in this stinkin’ town”, is full of shit. Sorry, but that’s it. Full of shit. I’m not saying you guys are the ones complaining about a lack of entertainment, but I’m saying I’ve heard it before from others.
9
chef Kevin
// Aug 23, 2007 at 4:34 am
“Arenas and stadiums all over the country get HRA money from their municipalities. Why? Because in most casest those venues are the reason so much money is collected. So why SHOULDN’T they get a piece of that money?”
That almost sounds like a kickback
Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but if my fading memory serves me well, I thought the PCC\HRA tax was SUPPOSED to have been a temporary financial support tax until the PCC could financially stand on its own merit. And in Peoria’s case so you really think the majority, heck even a reasonable percent of the HRA tax money is brought in by the PCC events? As I said on another blog, I seriously doubt our city leaders, when the PCC was built, promised us that the PCC would lose 6 digits every year. I wouldn’t complain if with the HRA tax they broke even or lost a few bucks. But lose 300+K with the tax is just unacceptable. Sure, it creates jobs and income and I can not disagree with that. But all we hear from the PCC is that we can not get big convention business without an attached hotel. Is that what they are concerned with…how many big $$ conventions they can draw? How about more smaller events? I understand that there are various groups that would have liked to use the Civic Center for events in different venues within the center, but find it fiscally impossible for them to do so. Is the PCC charging so much that they are pricing themselves out of business for smaller local groups? Or are people just being whiny?
10
Kevin Lowe
// Aug 24, 2007 at 2:40 am
Nice post. I prefer cities that have amenities. Therefore, I don’t mind a few tax dollars paid out for the greater good of the People and their happiness. Arenas and Civic Centers are the kind of things that distinguish happening population centers from the wannabes. I’ll gladly pay a price to keep this area vital.
Regarding the RiverPlex. The link to Merle’s post didn’t work. What kind of ungodly operating expenses could possibly lead to a loss of 7 million over four years? I’m assuming this figure lumps in the original construction cost, no? I’d be interested in learning what their current operating expenses vs. revenues look like. Heck, I know I pay my monthly dues, and it ain’t cheap.
11
bjstone
// Aug 24, 2007 at 3:10 am
Thanks for the heads up on the Merle link, Kevin. Here’s the paragraph I referenced from that post:
“In the first four years of its operation; thru 2004, the highly touted Peoria Park District’s Riverplex, lost $7,000,000.00. It was projected to be operating in the black by the end of 2004. This complex in competition with our local health clubs and supported by Peoria taxpayers is 40% used by people who don’t live in Peoria but who are enjoying our largesse at the same membership fees while paying no taxes to support the complex.”
I’ll try to fix the link.
12
Kevin Lowe
// Aug 25, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Thanks for fixing the link. I enjoy reading Merle’s work, but he rarely quotes his sources. So, I’ll take the RiverPlex numbers at face value.
I suppose a major gripe is that the facility is in competition with other private clubs, while receiving a huge subsidy from the taxpayers; thus, claims of unfair competition. But, the last time I checked, RiverPlex also provides low-cost memberships for economically disadvantaged folks. I don’t know if Landmark and The Clubs at Rivercity do this (I’d guess no, although as a former Landmark member, I know they have discounted plans for off-peak hours only).
So, in a sense, we have to factor in the benefit to society (in terms of wellness and exercise — certainly laudable goals), which would not otherwise be satisfied by the free market, and determine whether the benefit justifies the cost. I’d say yes. But, before I commit to that, I’d like to double-check Merle’s figures. 7 million seems like an awfully high loss over 4 years.
Disclaimer: I’m somewhat biased, because I love the RiverPlex and routinely workout there. My office and the courthouse are downtown, so the facility is very convenient for me (I just wish they had included some racquetball courts!).
Leave a Comment